unspeakablehorror (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
unspeakablehorror) wrote2019-09-13 04:33 pm
unspeakablehorror) wrote2019-09-13 04:33 pm
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Tenebrous and Sith AU's
I've also been thinking a bit about my good Sith AU, which is distinct from the redemption AU I am writing because it's an AU where the Sith were never evil in the first place and are in hiding because the Jedi killed most of them off in the Battle at Ruusan. I've talked about this one before but that was a while back. In my good Sith AU, the Rule of Two doesn't refer to only two Sith existing at any one time, but to only two Sith being in any one place at a time in order to avoid detection by the Jedi. I definitely want Tenebrous to be in that one quite a bit because I find his character very intriguing. Part of my work writing the flashbacks in Heart of Shadow is to flesh him out more as a character, which I think will also help me to develop his modified counterpart for this other AU.
Obviously Tenebrous (and all the other Sith) would be quite different in that AU but I tend to like to reuse ideas across AU's, for example, the idea that Sidious can use his foresight as a way to play life like a videogame and 'die' harmlessly and repeatedly to figure out what he should do next, or that San Hill is allergic to hair. Those ideas are in both Heart of Shadow and Cut Strings. And even though these two stories don't take place in the same universe, I find it useful and interesting to reuse elements like this. More importantly, I enjoy reusing personality elements, such as my interpretation that Sidious loves lightsaber fighting and incredibly complicated plans, especially when they involve making it look like someone else is trying to kill or kidnap himself.
I have my own interpretations of all these characters that is sometimes not at all the interpretation that the canon creators had in mind, but that is based in certain important respects on what we see in the canon. Because if something about a character interests me, there is something about the original presentation of the character that I want to keep (at least in the context of how I interpret it), because I'm not trying to make a completely new character, but instead to re-examine and re-conceptualize what I've been presented with. In the case of Tenebrous, this also involves expanding considerably on his character, in much the way I've done with San Hill (especially in Cut Strings). Since Tenebrous is a character with whom the original canon doesn't give us a whole lot to work with, considerable extrapolation is necessary to give him a detailed characterization.
Obviously Tenebrous (and all the other Sith) would be quite different in that AU but I tend to like to reuse ideas across AU's, for example, the idea that Sidious can use his foresight as a way to play life like a videogame and 'die' harmlessly and repeatedly to figure out what he should do next, or that San Hill is allergic to hair. Those ideas are in both Heart of Shadow and Cut Strings. And even though these two stories don't take place in the same universe, I find it useful and interesting to reuse elements like this. More importantly, I enjoy reusing personality elements, such as my interpretation that Sidious loves lightsaber fighting and incredibly complicated plans, especially when they involve making it look like someone else is trying to kill or kidnap himself.
I have my own interpretations of all these characters that is sometimes not at all the interpretation that the canon creators had in mind, but that is based in certain important respects on what we see in the canon. Because if something about a character interests me, there is something about the original presentation of the character that I want to keep (at least in the context of how I interpret it), because I'm not trying to make a completely new character, but instead to re-examine and re-conceptualize what I've been presented with. In the case of Tenebrous, this also involves expanding considerably on his character, in much the way I've done with San Hill (especially in Cut Strings). Since Tenebrous is a character with whom the original canon doesn't give us a whole lot to work with, considerable extrapolation is necessary to give him a detailed characterization.
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(Actually I like the idea of more Tenebrous content, period, but I feel a bit weird about (much as it makes logical sense) ...talking about(?) Rugess Nome having something like a death wish when I, rugessnome, sometimes struggle with suicidal thoughts :/
It's not exactly that it's triggering, either, but the aspect that "my belief system leads me to think I should be killed" is...kinda common between us o.O)
Loosely on that note, I like the idea that Palpatine has well, something that might be considered adjacent to a kink (but probably isn't exactly, at least given kink= somehow linked to sexuality), about power/dynamics play and being kidnapped or threatened but in a controlled scenario.
I've also been having discomfort or self-consciousness with my engagement with canons since I've seen presentations of directed-at-fans content this week with the two canons where I'm very very death-of-the-biased-or-semi-unreliable-narrator-author/this is my playground now and I'll do what I want with it. *sigh* (eg I don't WANT to be sorted into Gryffindor! or become a Jedi! However much other people like those experiences...)
Probably I actually more or less agree with what you said, but my sensitivity and wariness means I'm going "I'm probably not even holding to canon that much :(" etc
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I know that Plagueis's mother would still be alive in that AU and also a Sith Master, as well as Venemis. Plagueis and Venemis would have learned of each other earlier than in the canon and maybe Tenebrous has them work together to do certain things. I think Plagueis would actually be apprenticed to his mother in this AU but she sends him to learn from Tenebrous as well.
I'm not sure how I would want to do time periods in that AU since there would be so many interesting ones to explore, but I definitely want to explore the time period where Plagueis is learning from Tenebrous. I've given a bit of thought to their first meeting there.
Right now it's all very vague and subject to change as new ideas come up, but I definitely think it's a concept I want to expand on!
I can understand feeling weird about the Tenebrous stuff! While I don't base my conceptions of characters on specific real people, I also understand that others may have their own associations for things, and that's a logical connection to make.
My personal interpretation of Tenebrous is that he doesn't really want to die, but he does expect his apprentice to kill him. Still, there is that element of his belief system being involved with this. I actually find that a bit unsettling myself for my own reasons, but it's somewhat offset for me by the fact that in what I am writing Plagueis is continually evading any attempts Tenebrous makes to get him to kill him.
Palpatine certainly does seem to enjoy appearing to be kidnapped or threatened while actually being in control of the situation! That's got to be at least a hobby, haha!
Yeah, I don't get particularly excited about Jedi, either. There's a common thread in my stories that I tend to like having protagonists who openly loathe the Jedi (eg. Grievous in Cut Strings, Palpatine in Heart of Shadow) because I don't really think there's nearly enough positive portrayals of outsiders who are critical of the Jedi Order. They're nearly always portrayed as completely evil or somehow misguided. Meanwhile every atrocity or war crime committed by the Jedi Order gets treated like some minor foible.
Haven't really been involved in the Harry Potter fandom besides reading fic when I was younger, but yeah, Griffindor just gives me the impression that it's for all the popular normal people. Which is certainly not me, lol. Though really I think I'm critical of the Hogwarts House structure in general. I think it has a lot of unfortunate assumptions baked in regardless of the House in question. I have vague recollections of some really great fanworks for that series, but I had felt that it was starting to go downhill since book 5. And I have many and numerous complaints regarding Book 7.
Really I try to just avoid mainline fandom stuff a lot of the time because it's better for my blood pressure haha.
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(tw: suicidality in next paragraph, since this is public)
And well, I didn't expect that your Tenebrous was influenced by me, except perhaps by my version of him. (Certainly that's true for me of hegodamask or magisterhego (Lana pileofsith's side blog) for the respective Sith) But suicidal thoughts can be weirder than I would have expected, in terms of "wanting" vs. feeling that it ought to happen. ...my guess anyway is that reading an actual fic'll be more like fine than discussing it...
On to the next topic: ...so I have weird issues around "destruction of evil" when said evil is in human (or indeed sentient alien) guise, and Gryffindor just seems like...it's meant for sallying boldly forth and conquering, without much pause for empathy. *stares at Dumbledore and the matter of a young boy named Tom Riddle* (and well. I still never have read Deathly Hallows)
just had a bizarre AU idea: and the Deathly Hollers--Harry Potter must investigate why people keep going into mountain valleys and not returning. XDI also do agree greatly with you re the Jedi Order.
It just seems sometimes like it would be so much easier and even possibly more fun if I could enjoy the really popular fandom content but well, true, it's not pleasant on my stress levels.
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I don't know how much influence my Tenebrous is influenced by other interpretations of the character beyond the Legends canon, though the few existing interpretations I've found are quite intriguing to me. You bring a lot of interesting qualities to your Sith characters, and I absolutely adore your story Centripetal for both its depiction of Tenebrous and little Hego, as well as his mother Tema. I think your takes on the characters are very distinctly your own (even when you draw on others for inspiration as I know you often do), and not something I could adequately replicate, and just in general I never exactly try to write like another author. Nevertheless, just because I don't explicitly try to do this doesn't mean that my writing doesn't end up with certain similarities from writers whose works I've enjoyed.
I think I often find it easier to think about difficult subjects in a fictional context as well. Sometimes I think that even helps me to think about such things in real contexts.
And yeah, I think both of us find mainline fandom's preoccupation with Jedi to be exasperating haha.
Regarding Voldemort, I was never drawn strongly to his character in the series, but I do think that there's a lot I could say that is critical of Rowling and her formulation of the character. My favorite character in the HP series was and remains Snape, even if I have quite a number of criticisms in how Rowling depicts him as well. The difference between the two characters, for me, then, is in the level of detail their characterization is given by the canon. I think there's enough on Voldemort that a person can extrapolate a character with a nuanced personality, but that he isn't actually presented as one in the canon. His characterization always seemed to have been given such cursory attention compared to nearly any other character in the story. This is despite the fairly decent amount of backstory he is given. I just don't think Rowling did a good job getting into his motivations. I think she decided 'well his motivation is he's evil' and called it a day. I mean, I think there's a lot Rowling fundamentally misunderstands about the human condition, but in a lot of cases I think she did a better job depicting it even if she didn't truly understand what it was she was depicting.
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I need to actually! finish! things!) so you've read what's posted of it. Which ...doesn't actually cover the part about his master violating the Rule of Two yet because it isn't fully in order :/Oh! I'm glad you enjoy my interpretations of the characters. I know I have a tendency (alluded to in my first comment here) to look at how other people are writing Sith and go "oh, I'm insufficiently adhering to canon" but I suppose that actually probably wouldn't be all that pleasing to me. (also... nnnn I Do Not Enjoy people portraying Hego Damask (or for that matter Palpatine) as ...sexually aggressive and I am wary of this becoming an issue about me in the wider Sith fandom, eg much of the Plagueis tag.)
On Voldemort, well, at this point I'm probably more a fan of [parts of] the fandom than of the original books?! But that one instance of "nope, this isn't a good child" seems to probably influence a lot of later happenings--Voldemort's social pull in Slytherin acting as a feedback loop for the preexisting disfavor towards them.
Snape is def my HP fave too, really, and I wonder if there's a high correlation between liking Snape and being into redeeming Sith (I know AT least one other person, timegoddessrose on tumblr. ...and though it's less Snape in particular, and idk about redemption for Sith, souberbielle has done stuff about giving Wormtail sympathetic qualities.) or rather vice versa, although Sith redemption inevitably limits the population in question.
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I think that while your interpretations are certainly very AU, I'd also say that 'sexy Plagueis' or 'sexy Palpatine' interpretations are also...very AU. And yes, I feel similarly about In my case I just don't want to see sexually aggressive depictions of Sith characters. I simply don't particularly want to see noncon in any context. I don't assume depiction of such things constitutes endorsement, but I know what I personally find upsetting, so I generally try to avoid them. I'm okay with reading some depictions of consenting sexual activity involving Sith, and I'm obviously okay with certain romantic pairings (esp. Sidious/Talzin obviously), but I'm very particular and I find many things just don't appeal to me for one reason or another.
It's been a while since I read much HP related stuff, but fans can certainly have much more nuanced takes on the material than anything Rowling says. Like Voldemort had this incredibly disadvantaged upbringing (as one does when one grows up in an orphanage) and she makes him the main antagonist, more evil than any of the other characters, including the privileged Malfoys who the narrative seems to judge as more morally forgivable simply due to nothing other than their more privileged position in society. Snape came from a very disadvantaged background too, and even if the narrative judges him good enough to 'redeem', it seems to judge him as less worthy of life than the Malfoys, given that Rowling seemingly intended the ending to be read as a conventional 'happy ending' (and given what I've read about her saying regarding Snape in the past).
I wouldn't know if there's any link between liking Snape and wanting Sith redemption, but certainly there could be some common themes going on there. And, thanks for the info! I tend to hyperfocus on particular fandoms (such as my current Star Wars fixation), but it's still interesting to hear what people are doing in other fandoms where I have the context to know what's going on, like I do with HP. Wormtail is an often-neglected character that I certainly feel that Rowling unfairly shafted, as she did with many of her more complicated characters.