The Jedi are Slaveowners

[unspeakablehorror]

Sure wish people didn't judge the worth of the clones by how loyal they are to the Republic and Jedi who enslaved them.  Just unfollowed someone for suggesting that a clone being mind-controlled would make them less likable/sympathetic as a person.

Like, let's be clear here. The only way a clone 'betraying' the Republic or Jedi, *even of their own free will*, is a judgeworthy offense is if you condone slavery.  I can't even begin to understand the mental contortions someone would have to go through to judge someone poorly for being mindcontrolled into turning on their current slaveowners so they could be used by different slaveowners(and thus being doubly victimized).

Anyway, Slick was right.

Ahem.  That is all.

Comments

[rugessnome]

(To be clear, this is very much a devil's advocate argument that I agree with not at all, but) I imagine some people could arrive at that viewpoint because they accord moral primacy to the statement (or something like it) "The Jedi and The Republic are infallible arbiters of good; what they do and say is automatically good and their judgement determines what good is. [+Anything they do that looks wrong to us has a higher and worthy purpose]"

which is lazy and apt to lead to injustice and things like, indeed, condoning slavery! BUT I have seen this sort of attitude around real life things, albeit paired with vociferous "No True [Scotsman]" arguments whenever the institution was being somewhat guided by someone they didn't care for.

*cough* schvangelicals, Mr. Rhymes-with-bump (and other guys within their groups) and molestation/even rape so-called slut-shaming is analogous to the "weak-minded" argument going on here

---

(lol, additional devil's advocate argument: taking the phrasing diabolically literally and at a Watsonian level, I would suppose that the entity exerting mind control could--though I'm not sure why it would be desirable for anyone--oblige the person in question to act in a way that makes people less apt to sympathize with or like them. You'd hope people consuming media could get past that anyway, but...(different circumstances, but this concept reminds me heavily of the late book reveal re Jedao) However, I do not believe that is actually what is meant--I trust your perception that this was a Doylist complaint about susceptibility to mind control and not the actions undetaken in a controlled state.)

[unspeakablehorror]

Yes, I'd say that there's probably a strong bias towards thinking the Jedi and Republic are are automatically good and in the right. In this instance I'd say there was also a fair bit of character favoritism involved, and I think that's often a factor as well. People often tend to view characters more negatively if they do anything bad to a favored character, regardless of any other circumstances involved. And that's a perspective that always frustrates me.

And yes, I do believe the Doylist perspective applies here, though I had to look that up to see what that meant. Finally I have looked that up after seeing it only about a hundred times haha.

[tobermoriansass]

Is this about the thing that I've been vaguely seeing hinted at in the new season of Clone Wars? About some clone who gets mind-controlled or something by the Separatists?

Anyway, I agree (if not already obvious :P). I think a lot of people in fandom operate from a relationship with the text that divides the stories into heroes/villains and buy into the whole media-framing of "friends of heroes" = good, "enemies of heroes" = bad. So they're not really thinking through the implications of what they're saying.

And ofc, all discourse in Star Wars fandom is so severely poisoned that if you critique the Jedi & Republic people tend to assume you're an unhinged Anakin fan rather than someone approaching the text from an interested outsider perspective - it's always assumed to be leveraged in some part of some fandom war. So sadly it tends to make people even...more uncritical about their faves.

[unspeakablehorror]

Possibly. While I haven't seen the new series, this was regarding a post about it. Specifically, it was about someone worried that the central clone character of the series would attack one of their faves, with the implication that that they couldn't possibly like or sympathize with the character if that happened.

And the Anakin thing certainly doesn't surprise me, I've criticized that segment of fandom too before, in fact for the same reasons. Wow I really hate the whole 'my fave is the best and everyone else can either be their fawning bff or die' attitude that so many people seem to have in fandom haha.

[whaelan]

exactly!! i feel like people tend to gloss over the really fucked-up things the jedi/republic do just because they're presented as the protagonists

in short: you're right and you should say it

lol

[unspeakablehorror]

Yeah, there's a lot of presenting the Jedi and Republic as automatically being in the right given their protagonist status. And even when they're presented as flawed, their actions are still often seen as "not that bad" based on the idea that their intentions are good, without the wider context of considering the consequences of those actions and how certain of those 'good intentions' match up uncomfortably with how a lot of similar real life imperialist and colonialist acts are portrayed.