unspeakablehorror | Entries tagged with sidious

I once heard about there being a discarded idea for the original trilogy that the Emperor wasn't evil and it was actually just like, his advisors and and such who were evil (and Darth Vader, obviously).

Now, I think this would have been a terrible idea, and substantially worse than what Lucas actually ended up going with, but it gave me an idea that does interest me.

What if Palpatine was exactly the same, but if, because of the enormously positive propagranda for him during the Clone Wars, and because he had and has a lot of charisma, there were people who thought that he was actually a good guy. Like "oh, Palpatine's the best leader we ever had, such a good and brave man--this Empire business must all be Mas Amedda's fault" or something like that.

Obviously people like Obi-Wan and Yoda would know, but very few other people would have. Obi-Wan's message doesn't even explain why the Republic became the Empire, so it's possible that even some Jedi might not have worked out that it was Palpatine himself who had it in for them, and not someone else who was advising him. It might even be that some of the Jedi who became Inquisitors came to him willingly because they thought they could fix things if they 'rescued' him from the Sith who must be holding him hostage or something. It seems that not many people knew that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker, or that Palpatine was a Sith himself. Even after he offed the Jedi, Palpatine seemed to prefer to perpetuate the subterfuge that he was just an ordinary guy and not a Sith Lord. So only select people in the Empire would likely know the truth.

I just think that could be an interesting twist, for example if some of the Neo-Republicans in the Rebellion think they can fix the issue by appealing to Palpatine and it's the Separatists in the secret Rebel meeting who have to be like, no, that sounds like the worst idea ever. Or what if Luthen had to be like "Oh, yet another Rebel cell that wants to try to 'rescue' the Emperor again. Can I afford to tell them that won't work?"

We didn't get to see what kind of chair Palpatine was sitting in in the last part of the Ep IX trailer but I'm hoping it's like a bigger, fancier version of the mechno-chair from the Phantom Menace so we can see Palpatine skitter around in it like a hyperactive beetle.

It's the logical upgrade from the swivel chair throne. The other spiky throne is just to look fancy but Sidious is what, like 120 years old now? So I'm thinking maybe he wants a moveable one too so he can Force fry people in comfort.

Kylo Ren has been compared to a lot of other Star Wars villains, but the one who I think he most resembles is…not Darth Vader.

I bring up Vader because he’s the most common character people draw comparisons to when discussing Kylo Ren. While they do both have some surface similarities in temperament, they’re actually otherwise quite dissimilar.

There is, however, a character whose EU arc greatly resembles that of Kylo’s, despite having, in certain respects, a very different temperament.

And that character is…not Jacen Solo.

That character is Palpatine.

My source for a lot of this is the Darth Plagueis novel, so I will reference that heavily in this post, but I will also reference the movies in which he features.

Let’s look at the similarities, starting at birth.

Palpatine is born to wealthy, politically influential nobility. House Palpatine is one of the great Houses of Naboo, supposedly tasked with keeping Chaos itself at bay.

Kylo Ren is born to a wealthy, politically influential Princess and Senator and a war hero general who were instrumental in destroying the Empire and helped to build the New Republic.

Palpatine encounters a powerful near-human Sith Lord who convinces him to murder his entire family.

Kylo encounters a powerful near-human Force sensitive who convinces him to murder family (his father and uncle).

Palpatine kills his father first.

Kylo kills his father first.

Neither Palpatine nor Kylo lose any limbs (as of Ep 8)

Palpatine kills Plagueis in his sleep.

Kylo kills Snoke shortly after he closes his eyes.

Palpatine uses emotional manipulation to turn the younger Anakin to the Dark Side.

Kylo uses emotional manipulation in his (unsuccessful) attempt to turn the younger Rey to the Dark Side.

Kylo keeps some less powerful Force sensitives called the Knights of Ren around.

Palpatine keeps some less powerful Force sensitives called the Inquisitors around.

Palpatine becomes Chancellor shortly after killing Plagueis, and later Emperor.

Kylo becomes Supreme Leader shortly after killing Snoke.

Palpatine is the main antagonist of the original trilogy.

Kylo Ren is the main antagonist of the sequel trilogy.

Palpatine has a confrontation with Luke Skywalker. Palpatine dies shortly afterward.

Kylo Ren has a confrontation with Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker dies shortly afterward.

Anyway, that’s just what I can think of that’s similar/has echoes between them. Obviously they’re not identical in every aspect, and I certainly think there are important differences between them, but the number of similarities is quite large. I mentioned this a while back in a conversation with sl_walker and a few others and just now got around to posting it.

Tumblr-tags: kylo ren, sheev palpatine, star wars, character similarities

Post archived from this Tumblr post. Can't believe I finally found this thing! I have been looking for it for ages but been unable to track it down because Tumblr search is garbage and it wasn't coming up when I searched 'kylo ren' on my blog.

Just finished watching Episode I today. One thing the Sith and Jedi have in common: they both like to take off their outer robes when they fight. Though Sidious doesn't do that. I guess it's a Naboo thing to fight in wildly impractical clothing.

But I mean, if they're always taking them off, why wear the outer robes to begin with? We all know the answer: because they look cool. Though Maul's robes are obviously the coolest. 10/10 best outfit. That boring brown stuff the Jedi wear just can't compare.

I just thought of an idea for the ending to Cut Strings that I really like. I'm not going to reveal it because that would involve major spoilers if I actually use this idea, but I do really like it. I bounced it around in my head and refined it until the details coelesced into something that really works for me from both a narrative perspective and a thematic perspective. It's not the entire ending, but it is an important piece of it. It's about what ultimately happens to Sidious in the story.

In all my AU's where it comes up, Palpatine's foresight works in a very particular way, for very particular reasons. I thought I'd talk a little about that since it's something I found kind of fun to think up. In my AU's Palpatine doesn't just see the future, but can actually step into a simulated future version of himself, choose his own actions, and view the results. It's a lot like playing a videogame. This is in opposition to the way the Jedi see visions of the future, as things outside of their ability to choose or control.

However, that doesn't mean that Palpatine has better foresight than the Jedi, just that his works differently. There's two aspects to this: firstly, that Palpatine's visions have a more limited scope than those of the Jedi. This is because he can only see the future from his own perspective. Unlike the Jedi, or even a Sith like Bane who could see more than a millenia beyond his own death, Palpatine can only see the future where and when he's in it. For Palpatine, the arrow of time ends when he does. Secondly, there's the fact that he has immense control over what he sees. That aspect has obvious tactical advantages, but on the flip side he doesn't get surprise premonitions or warnings the way Jedi, or again, even some Sith do. He sees the future when and how he chooses to see it, no more and no less. So for example, Anakin unexpectedly seeing Padme dying, an event he was not present for, is something entirely outside of the abilities of Palpatine as I've defined them.

I came up with these aspects of his powers because I feel they fit his training as a Sith (which would have emphasized control over the Force), and his personality, which even for a Sith is very self-oriented.

One thing I've seen is people referring to both Plagueis and Palpatine as chessmaster type villains, which, while understandable, is a position I actually disagree with.

Palpatine is a chessmaster.

Plagueis is an evil scientist.

Both of them have overlaps in their capabilities and interests, but performing experiments and making discoveries is a very different thing than strategizing how to deal with intelligent opponents. So they're both very thinky villains, but they're not thinky in the same way.

To Plagueis, what was important was his science experiments. It's not that he can't or doesn't strategize against others, but that's not his speciality. Rule of Two Sith are expected to master all abilities they might need to use, and they generally have a number of skills, but it's clear that they have areas of particular interest that they focus on. Plagueis was interested in science. Sure, he could do politics, though he preferred some entertainment during the process via ridiculously over-the-top parties, but for him it was only a means to an end, like dueling. Possibly slightly less painful to him (though perhaps if he could have partied during his duels, he would have found that more agreeable as well). Towards the end of his life he reluctantly re-enters politics in order to enact the Sith Evil Plot to Ruin Everything. But I mean, his last act is to get super drunk and beg Palpatine to chill out with the political speeches, so I really don't think he was excited about that lol. Probably told himself he was gonna build the biggest Evil Lab of Evil once the Sith took over everything and just live there while his Apprentice runs the government.

Palpatine, meanwhile, shows every indication of enjoying political machinations. He loved outsmarting his opponents dead. In fact, he loved politics all the way up until he won. Then it began to bore him because a chessmaster without a challenging opponent doesn't enjoy the game anymore. There's evidence from the Book of Sith that he spent more time in Sith Alchemy after that, which I suppose would be like some sort of Bio-Engineering. So I guess he kind of merged the biological interests of Plagueis and the engineering interests of Tenebrous in a way. He also got more into the military side of things after the Rebellion became considered a plausible threat, presumably so he could employ his chessmaster abilities in that venue--but that did not turn out as well for him.

So, basically, I feel Plagueis and Palpatine were very different in this respect.

I think it's kind of amusing that Sidious made Dooku his Apprentice. Like, there's nothing illogical about that and I can see why he'd both be motivated to do that (since Dooku was Yoda's prize Apprentice), and I can also see how it would be a useful choice since given Dooku's age people might be inclined to assume that he was the Master Sith.

But I mean, looking at it from Dooku's perspective, his boss is like, 20 years younger than him or something. I just kind of wonder what he would have felt about that. Also this makes me want to come up with an excuse for them to meet earlier on than in canon in Heart of Shadow and have Dooku call Sidious 'young man' lol.

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A Continued Deception
Throne Theories for The Rise of Skywalker
Kylo Ren Character Comparison (Tumblr Archive)
Musings on Episode I Outfits
Cut Strings Ending Idea
Palpatine's Foresight
Plagueis and Palpatine
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Entries tagged with sidious

A Continued Deception

Throne Theories for The Rise of Skywalker

Kylo Ren Character Comparison (Tumblr Archive)

Musings on Episode I Outfits

Cut Strings Ending Idea

Palpatine's Foresight

Plagueis and Palpatine

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